Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.
I am a regular visitor here, and am delighted to see you pointing to my Carthusian photographs. I also have reflections on my site attempting to learn from Carthusian life and apply that beyond the walls. I would be delighted if you placed a link to my site on your blogroll - if you let me know I acknowledge that and link back. For those interested - I have four different resources on the O Antiphons we are praying currently.
The photos themselves are lovely. I would question giving this site a boost however given its active proselytization for a liberal Protestant perspective (there is a particularly rabid denunciation of the doctrinal statement on the nature of the Church released earlier this year for example).
Hmmm, whilst I do not believe it appropriate to commence a debate about the texture of my website on another person’s wonderful site, I guess I need to respond to Magda’s strong accusations, which, to say the least, took me aback. In a little pause before Magda hit the keyboard she might have asked herself whether she appropriately viewed someone as a “rabidly proselytising liberal protestant” when he devotes so much energy spending time in monasteries, particularly Carthusian ones, and reflecting on attempting to live their charism beyond cloister walls – and have come to the conclusion that maybe her assessment is unwarranted. Not to mention the O Antiphons I noted in my comment above…
I did a search of the 584 pages of my site: the word “protestant” occurs 5 times – 2 of those are in the title of books I mention, 3 are quotes from other’s in lectures. On my site I have never apparently used the word “protestant” myself. As to being “liberal” – it is only three days since I posted a way through the traditionalist-liberal impasse. I regard myself neither as traditionalist nor liberal, but contemplative http://www.liturgy.co.nz/worship/matters_files/contemplativemissional.html
My site is seeking to encourage worship that is vital, transforming, and faithful. It assumes persons are mature and thoughtful enough to think through what is provided and make their own decisions – I have no particular need to proselytise for any particular position. I do not see someone linking to my site as necessarily agreeing with all that is found there – nor do I expect people to think that I agree with everyone to whom I am linked. Welcome to the internet! I am still hoping that we will link our two sites. And as a sign of that hope I will place a link from http://www.liturgy.co.nz/links/blogs.html on my next upload in the next few hours. Fr Tim can clearly identify my site, if there is any confusion, as something like “Anglican Liturgy” or “Ecumenical Liturgy” or “Ecumenical Liturgy and spirituality”.
Anyone wanting a brief introduction to what is offered on my website in spirituality and liturgy will find it at the bottom of the front page. I hope that this concludes any critique of my site here – it is a many-hours labour of love that I offer in my spare time.
By the way, I hope people are realising when they get to the albums of photos that they click on the thumbprint – the actual photo should open to nearly full-screen. I know I’ve been unclear about that – I will try and fix that soon.
In fact the liberal-Traditionalist 'impasse' article is part of the problem.
Because 'contemplation' is not a magical middle way, and unity if not based on truth is worse, in my view, than discord based on a refusal to compromise with truth.
I understand that many Anglicans like Mr Peters can sense something of the truth in Catholicism and hence are interested in its treasures. And I'm normally in favour making use of insights into truth wherever they can be found.
The problem is that he seems to be using those treasures to evangelize for his own cause - Mr Peters describes his approach in that article as as 'missional' - and it is.
The site appears to be deliberately selecting some aspects of Catholicism as a way of drawing readers in - in the hope that they will then be exposed to, and accept, the kind of relativism, condemned by the recent doctrinal note on evangelization.
His view, in the article 'Not a proper Church' is that Vatican II ushered in the Reformation, a few centuries late, for catholics,and placed all 'Churches' in the same footing. So Anglican Orders are just as valid as Catholic, etc etc.
Personally, I think those such as Mr Peters who appear on the surface to be somewhat sympathetic to at least some aspects of Catholicisms are all the more dangerous. By putting up monastic shots, the O Antiphons and the like, Catholics are enticed to read more.
Mr Peters' campaign seems a deliberate response to the Pope's attempt to correct the 'spirit of Vatican II' disease that has afflicted the Church for the last forty years. I'm disappointed that this blog continues to promote give his blog airtime, and would urge Father to rethink on this.
I am reluctant to once again pick up discussion here about my liturgy site, but Kate’s construction of my motivation is false. There is no hidden agenda. I genuinely love and attempt to live the Carthusian charism that she suggests I am using merely as a façade to lead others astray. A little reflection would suggest how bizarre the accusations are – that I journey with my family, at the cost of thousands of dollars, make retreats in various monasteries, take photos and start a website as “a deliberate response [against] the Pope's” current guidance (and these many journeys and photos, of course, prior to his election)!
I wonder if she has actually read my article when she accuses me of being “missional” with Kate changing the meaning to my wanting to convert others to some cause. “Missional” on my site is used as the stance of a group being there for others – not the reverse as she is suggesting – going to others solely to draw them into our perspective. “The missional dimension is the outward-looking position of individuals and a church that is not merely concerned with its members – but looks outwards in service to the community within which it worships – even as it stands before God in that community’s name.”
Nor am I suggesting “'contemplation' is a magical middle way” – that would not be a way forward at all. I am as strongly against relativism as Kate appears to be. I see the truth as a glorious diamond – different facets can be seen from many sides. That there are Jesuits, Franciscans, Carthusians, and Benedictines is not an abandonment of truth, for example – it presents a model that the truth can be seen and lived in a variety of ways.
The link from my site to this one stays in place – and I hope it draws many from my site here. I continue to be optimistic about the maturity of people, allowing them their own wit to draw from the wealth available on the internet, rather than fearing that a variety of perspectives so easily leads people away from the way the truth and the life. My impression is that Fr Tim has similar confidence in the strength of the truth and the power of God and hope to look forward to his linking back.
Fr Bosco - thank you for your courteous reply here. I don't think there is any need for this discussion to go on further so I'll close the comments box for this post now.
I only put blogs in the blogroll - if I attempted to manage a list of links of interest it would get unmanageable. But I always try to give a link to sites where I find something interesting or helpful - hence the link to yours in the post. Thank you once again for the great Carthusian photos.
7 comments:
I am a regular visitor here, and am delighted to see you pointing to my Carthusian photographs. I also have reflections on my site attempting to learn from Carthusian life and apply that beyond the walls.
I would be delighted if you placed a link to my site on your blogroll - if you let me know I acknowledge that and link back.
For those interested - I have four different resources on the O Antiphons we are praying currently.
Advent blessings
Bosco+
http://www.liturgy.co.nz/
The photos themselves are lovely. I would question giving this site a boost however given its active proselytization for a liberal Protestant perspective (there is a particularly rabid denunciation of the doctrinal statement on the nature of the Church released earlier this year for example).
Hmmm, whilst I do not believe it appropriate to commence a debate about the texture of my website on another person’s wonderful site, I guess I need to respond to Magda’s strong accusations, which, to say the least, took me aback. In a little pause before Magda hit the keyboard she might have asked herself whether she appropriately viewed someone as a “rabidly proselytising liberal protestant” when he devotes so much energy spending time in monasteries, particularly Carthusian ones, and reflecting on attempting to live their charism beyond cloister walls – and have come to the conclusion that maybe her assessment is unwarranted. Not to mention the O Antiphons I noted in my comment above…
I did a search of the 584 pages of my site: the word “protestant” occurs 5 times – 2 of those are in the title of books I mention, 3 are quotes from other’s in lectures. On my site I have never apparently used the word “protestant” myself. As to being “liberal” – it is only three days since I posted a way through the traditionalist-liberal impasse. I regard myself neither as traditionalist nor liberal, but contemplative http://www.liturgy.co.nz/worship/matters_files/contemplativemissional.html
My site is seeking to encourage worship that is vital, transforming, and faithful. It assumes persons are mature and thoughtful enough to think through what is provided and make their own decisions – I have no particular need to proselytise for any particular position. I do not see someone linking to my site as necessarily agreeing with all that is found there – nor do I expect people to think that I agree with everyone to whom I am linked. Welcome to the internet! I am still hoping that we will link our two sites. And as a sign of that hope I will place a link from http://www.liturgy.co.nz/links/blogs.html on my next upload in the next few hours. Fr Tim can clearly identify my site, if there is any confusion, as something like “Anglican Liturgy” or “Ecumenical Liturgy” or “Ecumenical Liturgy and spirituality”.
Anyone wanting a brief introduction to what is offered on my website in spirituality and liturgy will find it at the bottom of the front page. I hope that this concludes any critique of my site here – it is a many-hours labour of love that I offer in my spare time.
By the way, I hope people are realising when they get to the albums of photos that they click on the thumbprint – the actual photo should open to nearly full-screen. I know I’ve been unclear about that – I will try and fix that soon.
Advent blessings
Fr Bosco Peters
www.liturgy.co.nz
In fact the liberal-Traditionalist 'impasse' article is part of the problem.
Because 'contemplation' is not a magical middle way, and unity if not based on truth is worse, in my view, than discord based on a refusal to compromise with truth.
I understand that many Anglicans like Mr Peters can sense something of the truth in Catholicism and hence are interested in its treasures. And I'm normally in favour making use of insights into truth wherever they can be found.
The problem is that he seems to be using those treasures to evangelize for his own cause - Mr Peters describes his approach in that article as as 'missional' - and it is.
The site appears to be deliberately selecting some aspects of Catholicism as a way of drawing readers in - in the hope that they will then be exposed to, and accept, the kind of relativism, condemned by the recent doctrinal note on evangelization.
His view, in the article 'Not a proper Church' is that Vatican II ushered in the Reformation, a few centuries late, for catholics,and placed all 'Churches' in the same footing. So Anglican Orders are just as valid as Catholic, etc etc.
Personally, I think those such as Mr Peters who appear on the surface to be somewhat sympathetic to at least some aspects of Catholicisms are all the more dangerous. By putting up monastic shots, the O Antiphons and the like, Catholics are enticed to read more.
Mr Peters' campaign seems a deliberate response to the Pope's attempt to correct the 'spirit of Vatican II' disease that has afflicted the Church for the last forty years. I'm disappointed that this blog continues to promote give his blog airtime, and would urge Father to rethink on this.
Thanks for this link; recently, I discovered this treasury of photos taken by a spanish carthusian enthusiast:
http://picasaweb.google.com/cartujas1/
Some wonderful pictures, for example, from the german Marienau.
yours,
Thomas
I am reluctant to once again pick up discussion here about my liturgy site, but Kate’s construction of my motivation is false. There is no hidden agenda. I genuinely love and attempt to live the Carthusian charism that she suggests I am using merely as a façade to lead others astray. A little reflection would suggest how bizarre the accusations are – that I journey with my family, at the cost of thousands of dollars, make retreats in various monasteries, take photos and start a website as “a deliberate response [against] the Pope's” current guidance (and these many journeys and photos, of course, prior to his election)!
I wonder if she has actually read my article when she accuses me of being “missional” with Kate changing the meaning to my wanting to convert others to some cause. “Missional” on my site is used as the stance of a group being there for others – not the reverse as she is suggesting – going to others solely to draw them into our perspective. “The missional dimension is the outward-looking position of individuals and a church that is not merely concerned with its members – but looks outwards in service to the community within which it worships – even as it stands before God in that community’s name.”
Nor am I suggesting “'contemplation' is a magical middle way” – that would not be a way forward at all. I am as strongly against relativism as Kate appears to be. I see the truth as a glorious diamond – different facets can be seen from many sides. That there are Jesuits, Franciscans, Carthusians, and Benedictines is not an abandonment of truth, for example – it presents a model that the truth can be seen and lived in a variety of ways.
The link from my site to this one stays in place – and I hope it draws many from my site here. I continue to be optimistic about the maturity of people, allowing them their own wit to draw from the wealth available on the internet, rather than fearing that a variety of perspectives so easily leads people away from the way the truth and the life. My impression is that Fr Tim has similar confidence in the strength of the truth and the power of God and hope to look forward to his linking back.
Advent blessings
Fr Bosco
www.liturgy.co.nz
Fr Bosco - thank you for your courteous reply here. I don't think there is any need for this discussion to go on further so I'll close the comments box for this post now.
I only put blogs in the blogroll - if I attempted to manage a list of links of interest it would get unmanageable. But I always try to give a link to sites where I find something interesting or helpful - hence the link to yours in the post. Thank you once again for the great Carthusian photos.
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