The SSPX has been part of a debate that has informed my religious life ever since the day I served my first Novus Ordo Mass aged about 10 and asked the priest in the sacristy how many times I should ring the bell at the Consecration: "How the bloody hell does anyone know any more?" was the irreverent but accurate reply.From Ttony at the Muniment Room: Bishop Williamson, the SSPX, and a New (to me) Blog
Saturday, 19 January 2008
Quote of the day
Prescinding from the discussion about Bishop Williamson, I hugely enjoyed this anecdote:
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14 comments:
The article is incorrect as it implies that Richard Williamson was received straight into the SSPX at conversion - not true. Secondly, he tried his vocation in two seminaries but was thrown out both times.
Three, right? ;)
Well my sons are excellent at ringing the bell...
I do recommend the Blog which Ttony gives the link to:-
http://thesensiblebond.blogspot.com/
I would guess that Ches, who owns that Blog, and Ttony, are near neighbours. Ches gives a link to Bishop Williamson speaking and one can clearly see that as a speaker, Bishop Williamson has style and a certain charisma. When I was present at a Mass in which he also conferred the Sacrament of Cofirmation, I found him easy to listen to and certainly he spoke "with authority" (!)
The Confirmation ceremony was also very impressive.
JARay
Pope about "La Sapienza", in Angelus: http://gazetadarestauracao.blogspot.com/2008/01/com-o-papa.html
I dont understand the method this blog has of feeds instead of comments ? Are they the same. I could not find a way of commenting.
Anyway perhaps as a good thelogian you might be able to answer the question as to the validity of the confessions heard by a$ the 3 excommunicated Bishops
or b) by SSPX priests.
Found the Williamson blog unimpressive.
He admits however that SSPX are struggling for vocations. I have heard rumours that the problem with Econe is that the SSPX have turned into the Jesuits (as they once were). There is concern about this development and some have left the Society in France.
Fr Clifton - sign in using blogger/google. You should not need to enter anything if you are already logged on to blogger/google. If you need to log on, use your blogger username and password.
The problem of jurisdiction is one of the most important matters that needs to be resolved.
Jimmy Akin argues that the confessions are invalid.
Fr Ramon Angles of the SSPX argues that they are valid.
NB. other commenters - I'd be grateful if you would please read and understand both those positions and only add further comments if you have something to add...
And what is the credibility of Jimmy Akin when pronouncing on matters of sacramental validity? Shall his opinions and canonical analysis take precedence over statements made by Cardinal Hoyos - who has said that the sacraments of the SSPX priests are valid? To contradict Cardinal Hoyos causes scandal to the Catholic faith.
I have met Bishop Williamson on a number of occasions - and even been on his retreats. While I might concede that he has sometimes extreme, unpopular views, and could perhaps have allegations of misogyny made against hm (on a bad day), he is not a bad priest, in fact, he is a very good one. His priestly ordination is valid. And these rumours about him being thrown out of 2 - no, 3! - seminaries, need to be substantiated if they are to have even superficial credibility. All these opinions, so few substantiated facts. As one of the rugby referees from the last World Cup in France said "Opinions are like bums, everyone has one".
SSPX vocations appear to be no fewer than in the Catholic Church at large. Why knock fellow Catholics who merely wish to practise a timeless, age-old faith?
I know Bishop Williamson tried his vocation out at the Oratory in London, before he left for Econe. I suppose back then the Oratory was a known bastion of traditionalism (and strictly speaking it isn't now, except for liturgy).
I would say that Williamson converted at the worst time, in the history of the church. If he has converted in the 1950s, he probably wouldn't have been like he is now.
"And these rumours about him being thrown out of 2 - no, 3!"
These rumours come from Williamson himself in an interview. Indeed he was at the Oratory for a while. He returned to his Irish spiritual after the sceond expulsion who suggested Econe to him. The Irish priest was not a member of the SSPX. There was less stigma attached to Econe under Paul VI than under JPII.
"SSPX vocations appear to be no fewer than in the Catholic Church at large."
This is true in so much as SSPX is struggling for vocations also. I have heard rumours that Econe resembles a Jesuit formation house and is alienating many in the process.
Well call me a bleeding heart liberal but I would count the London Oratory as a bastion of traditionalism. Che?!
At least the "rumours" are now being a little more substantiated on this post (which enhances credibility). Nonetheless we should not be criticising a priest who tried out a potential vocation in various places. That is not being "thrown out" which implies wrongdoing. There is no sin or wrongdoing in not finding the right priestly order or place for a vocation on first (or later) attempt.
I agree that Brompton Oratory is a bastion of traditionalism. The sermons are consistently orthodox and solidly true to Roman Catholicism. For example, last week's (at a novus ordo Mass) advocated more prayer and defence by the laity of the values of the Gospel of Life, the traditional family, and explicitly criticised the proposal in the HTE Bill, in particular, to remove the legal requirement for a father - an excellent case in point. The cassocks and birettas one sees at the Oratory are no window-dressing.
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