Friday, 3 February 2012
Gay Mass Bidding Prayers video
Look, isn't it about time an end was put to this? It is a scandal to all faithful Catholics and a travesty of the Church's genuine concern and care for people who have particular problems and temptations.
I entirely accept the teaching of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (2358) that people with same sex attraction should be treated with compassion and sensitivity. In my own ministry, in which I have heard many confessions of people who have committed sexual sins whether heterosexual or homosexual, I hope that I have been kindly and, as far as possible, understanding. It is perfectly possible to offer acceptance and compassion for human weakness without the need to have the Bidding Prayers read by a man with a wig and a dress and a rainbow flag on the ambo.
The Gay Mass phenomenon is also an obstacle to many good people who are struggling with temptations to same sex attraction, and trying to live a chaste life according to the teaching of Christ and the Church. I do not know of any official support that has been given to Encourage, yet the scandal of the Soho Masses seems to be immune from serious, documented and sustained criticism from lay people who can supply (and have supplied over years) reams of evidence of dissent from Church teaching, association with immoral events and groups (such as "Pride") and such travesties of the liturgy as illustrated in the video above.
The Catholic Church in England and Wales will have no credibility in opposing legislation for gay marriage while this is allowed to continue in the heart of London.
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66 comments:
Well said Father,and thanks for posting this.
Sandy.
When will it stop ?
Why are they allowed to behave like this and call themselves Catholic ?
And the congregation, or is that audience, seem to lap it all up.
Mary Help of Christians, pray for us.
And they wonder why the SSPX don't sign the preamble. I wouldn't seeing this video. And nothing is being done about it. Because WE MUST BE OBEDIENT, according to the majority in the Church today!. Hence we cause scandal, when we say the truth. And not the secular minded truth.
And this within the regularised Church and the FSSPX is not regularised?
Why is this allowed? This is one of the five sins which cries out for vengeance to God, or does the hierarchy no longer believe in God?
The Archbishop of Westminster, in authorizing this scandalous "ministry", is leading some of the most vulnerable members of his flock into the lair of wolves. He shall have to account for every soul lost when he faces the judgment seat. If he did not think he was made of strong enough stuff to be a shepherd of Christ's flock, he should have refused his appointment. Prayers for Archbishop Nichols and for the souls he has effectively abandoned.
There is no place for a "Gay Mass" in a church that claims to be Catholic ie universal.
This should not be happening. What is all that junk on the walls? Where do the rubrics provide for rainbow flags?
This is divisive and a reason for pushing forward the real reform of the reform and implementing the Traditional Latin Mass as the norm that should not be departed from without special permission, which would be granted only execeptionally and for a very good reason, which the circumstances of the video would not be one.
It would be more productive to encourage confession in this situation, preceding a Low Mass in the traditional form.
Say a prayer for these two people and the priest. I don't know how they'll feel if/when they find it goes public.
However, hurting someone's feelings is not grounds for doing/not doing anything. I think it's right that this has been made with public. It was their choice to take part in a public Mass more about homosexuality than Calvary.
Nonetheless, pray for them.
Do you imagine for one moment, though, Father, that Rome hasn't known about - and therefore turned several blind eyes to - this ongoing scandal for several years now, thus equipping Abp Nichols with all the confidence he requires to maintain this provision which he is so deeply committed to?
Celebrated twice a month, on the first and third Sundays, one such "Mass" like this occurred on the very day that His Holiness awoke in the Archdiocese of Westminster, in September 2010, prior to helicoptering to Birmingham to beatify John Henry Newman.
There is little point any longer in protesting either to Rome or to Archbishop Nichols.
Time to just get on with it. Sad but true.
God, have mercy....
So sad.
How they torture themselves.
Is there not a curial department to which testimonies and videos can be sent. I know in Australia that the only way the 20 years of irregular baptisms and liturgies of Peter Kennedy in Queensland were brought to a halt was when the laity sent the evidence to Rome and Kennedy's bishop was forced kicking and screaming to do something about the scandal.
Can't watch all of this... it makes me I'll.
I have posted expressing my concern. We wouldn't have Masses for those struggling with temptation to theft for example, with bidding prayers read by those in stripy jumpers, masks and swag bags,
Perhaps an exaggeration but you get the point...
I disagree with Gregory. Don't be defeatist. If one truly loves Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament, then it's never time to "just get on with" sacrilege. Love will find a way to protest and make reparation. Please write and complain to the Apostolic Nuncio nuntius@globalnet.co.uk or the CDF cdf@cfaith.va I understand that personnel changes at the CDF are not too far away, so let's see what happens. And for anyone wanting to learn about the history of this appalling scandal, see the links below for factual information:-
http://www.christianorder.com/features/features_2006/features_junejuly06.html
http://www.christianorder.com/features/features_2007/features_may07_bonus.html
http://www.christianorder.com/features/features_2007/features_nov07.html
http://www.christianorder.com/features/features_2010/features_nov10.html
The problem is much more deep rooted than this, I'm sorry to say. In the area where I live, many priests and lay people, while not having specific Masses for people who are living a lifestyle outside of the Church, are nevertheless supportive of these lifestyles and practices : e.g. remarried Catholics receiving Holy Communion, priests having a sexual relationship, same-sex sexual relationships, In-vitro fertilisation, contraception, even abortion "in certain circumstances" . One stands out like a sore thumb if one speaks against any or all of this.
Very well said Father. I have commented on Father Blake's blog. This is dangerous stuff - the message goes out loud and clear that if this is okay then what is wrong with any other kind of sexual sin? And once you go down that road give up confession and stop practising your faith at all which millions have done over the past decades.
Gregory: Rome acts slowly. We must keep at them!
"It is perfectly possible to offer acceptance and compassion for human weakness without the need to have the Bidding Prayers read by a man with a wig and a dress and a rainbow flag on the ambo."
Does the church acknowledge transgenedered people? If so, then it may be that this 'man' is in reality a woman, even if outward appearences suggest otherwise. I am not saying he/she is, just asking the question, rather than choosing to mock with ignorance, also a sin.
Who filmed this? Did they seek permission? I know it's not illegal to film, but integrity (which everyone here seems to be claiming to have the larger share of) would surely urge right thinking Catholics to act in the proper manner in even small matters, especially as that is what is being asked of our Archbishop.
Unacknowledged prejudice, given to our fellow man can cause him to lose his faith and then it might be us answering to God on Judgment Day, for lost souls.
I am basically saying we must seek our own hearts motives before deciding on the good or ill of others. I don't see a powerful message of hope here, just finger pointing. Is anyone prepared to become a champion for sexually marginalised Catholics? Well? No, I thought not.
I even see a priest in one of the comments said he couldn't complete watching the video because it made him so ill! Thank God the Father didn't turn His face away from us, when He looked, but felt so much love, that He sent Jesus Christ to die for us.
Perhaps the priest should pray for that same love the Father feels when looking at us all. Then he would become a powerful force of witness to that love that saves and heals.
Or would that be to go against Catholic teaching?
It seems significant to me that neither of the people genuflected to the Blessed Sacrament as they approached the ambo.
I know that is somewhat out of fashion in many circles: but that is rather my point. Erase being centred on Christ and one ends up centred on self.
I understand that Archbishop Nichols has been instructed to terminate these Masses, but that he has asked for time,so that he can choose a convenient moment.
He does not seem to realise that the longer he leaves it, the more difficult it will become.
Shadowlands: You ask whether the Church acknowledges transgendered people. I think the answer is that the church acknowledges everyone. However I understand that it does not acknowledge that somebody can change their sex. Gender though is a new concept whereby somebody can pretend that despite having all the attributes of one sex they belong to the opposite gender. The video shows what appears to be a man dressed as a woman – in drawing attention to that I do not think anyone is mocking them. Personally I feel sorry for such people who are often exploited by medics into having surgery, at vast cost, which they frequently subsequently come to regret. What they need is psychological help.
I have no idea who filmed this or whether they got permission to do so. They must have been visible to both the priest and the congregation so one suspects they were accepted. The gay pride lobby seem to be rather keen on publicity and the video does not distort or comment on what they are doing as far as I can tell.
You then suggest that someone should champion “sexually marginalised Catholics” and immediately make the judgement that no one would want to do this. If “championing” them means respecting them then I am sure we all would aspire so to do. If “championing” means agreeing with, and promoting, those who say sexual sins are okay then are you suggesting we should?
As for Christ I thought he died to redeem us from our sins not to approve them.
"...Look, isn't it about time an end was put to this?...
Yes.
Abrogate, terminate, immediately the Novus Ordo Mass.
These are the people that promulgate this Mass and it's scandals:
http://fratres.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/disturbing-report-fr-amorth-worlds-best-known-exorcist-says-vatican-clergy-among-satanists
Pray for the Holy Father.
*
Shadowlands - this is about people using the Catholic Church to 'change it from within' on issues of morality that have never changed down through the ages since Deuteronomy. The man who dresses up as a woman is indicating that he does not accept the way God made him.
The gay movement is no different from the feminist movement in that it turns out, for all the good reasons it might have started off with, it's really only all about 'me, me, me, and what I want and and what I think, and to hell with what the Church thinks, and to hell with what anyone else wants, me time is the only thing that matters and me time is what I'm going to have!'
Fr. Tim,
Thank you for helping this to reach a global audience. Rome needs to act. This whole business is particularly nefarious because it will be extremely difficult to unravel: if these Masses are eventually suppressed, there will in all likelihood be violent and unpleasant protests, desecrations, hostile media coverage, and further undermining of the Church.
Have the hierarchy completely forgotten what they would all have learnt at school -- "In how many ways may we either cause or share the guilt of another’s sin?"
"We may either cause or share the guilt of another’s sin in nine ways: (1) By counsel; (2) By command; (3) By consent; (4) By provocation; (5) By praise or flattery; (6) By concealment; (7) By being a partner in the sin; (8) By silence; and (9) By defending the ill done."
Nicholas
Thank you for your response to my comment.
Regarding the transgendered issue, I just sought to clarify the church's teaching.
You say you imagine the video would have been accepted by the people present at the Mass. I don't. Look at the title on youtube:
"Vincent Nicholls and the apostles of gay sex"(and the ridicule in the description underneath it).
By whatever means this film got into the youtubers hands, it wasn't by using integrity with the people present at the Mass. They were set up. The person in the dress is obviously going to be the subject of much public opinion and ridicule, what if they are already living a life of hell and desperation? What if that fortnightly Mass is their only sanctuary? I could cry for them, I really could.
By championing the sexually marginalised, I mean more than likely an orthodox priest, given a strong and particular love for people who identify as being sexually isolated in the church (whatever that means!!), who will proclaim the everlasting love and power of Jesus Christ and Our Lady. A priest, who if a 'man' did come to him dressed as a woman, would not shut the door in his face and say he that he (the priest) felt ill, but would proclaim the secret of his own hope! Jesus! Hallelujah!
And finally Nicholas, in my own will, I choose to obey Church teaching and see it as revealed truth. I fall regularly but keep picking myself back up. With God's help. Where else can one go?
God bless.
Ros
It is upsetting Fr that you seem to have a certain hostility towards what is likely a transgendered man or woman reading the bidding prayers. Do you find something offensive about it?
However the real problem I have is this: every time a blogging Priest decries something about the LGBT community in the Church (whether it's the Soho Masses or anything else) what it turns into is a sort of licence for every bigoted, homophobic, evangelical Catholic to rediscover their zeal and hatred for "the gays" and veil it as compassion or concern (or not, as Fr. J Guy Winfrey proudly asserts: "Can't watch all of this... it makes me I'll.")
I happen to know a number of gay Catholics, faithful to the Church, and only yesterday a friend rather upset spoke about the "enclaves of homophobia" within the Church that distress him. A more pertinent question is this: when will these sorts of blog posts stop?
I don't happen to like the soho masses; I find them in poor taste and I suspect it may be, without proper education, a breeding ground for dissent, but I don't "know" that and I am certainly not going to go undercover to a Holy Sacrifice of the Mass more interested in videoing the proceedings than attending to Our Blessed Lord right before me.
I can assure everyone here that has posted that having to read through reams of comments the likes of:
"When will it stop ?
Why are they allowed to behave like this and call themselves Catholic ?"
only makes it that much more difficult to live as a homosexual Catholic faithful to the Church. In-fact what it produces in one is a sort of dissonance: one adores Christ, His Church and the Apostolic Priesthood; yet one grows to hate those people that comprise the Church and their unthinking, uncaring prejudice that they mete out always ready to see the speck in their brother's eye and not notice the log in their own. (St. Matt 7:4)
Seriously, we have got to start being more charitable in the way that we interpret and speak about others; where is St. Paul's 1 Cor 13 ? Where is CCC 2478 ?
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get." (St. Matt 7 1-2).
Father,
I appreciate your courage and your genuine spiritual concern for those Catholics who carry a cross of Same Sex Attraction. This sort of liturgical celebration as those of Dignity in the USA are a affront to those Catholic men and women who seek to embrace this particular cross and be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Real compassion for those with same sex attraction is about helping them live lives of holiness and not about embracing their particular brokeness. This is off subject really but I think something has to be said about it. I do not know the situation in the UK regarding the percentage of Catholics who contracept but I know here in the USA it is very, very high. Many of these same people Sunday after Sunday year after year still go to Holy Communion. I find it scandalous and yet I have NEVER heard anything from the pulpit NEVER. There seems to be so much accommodation for and acceptance for sin. Yes, the Church is a hospital for sinners but we have to aknowledge our sinfulness before God and beg His mercy and not bury our heads in the sand or look the other way in order not to "offend" our neighbor. We don't affirm those who are ill in hospital in their illness and infirmity. We live in very dishonest and wretched times. There is so much "diabolical disorientation" in the world and unfortunately in the bosom of holy mother church.
Odd so many people get hot under the collar, or chuck in their judgemental two penneth’s worth about something happening in one parish church, that is fairly unusual anyway, in its siting and congregation. I was a social worker in the West End for several years and know the church well – indeed although an Anglican I would sometimes slip into this church and say mid-day office during my lunch, as it was just across the square from my then office.
First of all, I suspect the man in the dress would not identify himself as ‘gay’ – dressing up in women’s clothes isn’t really a ‘gay’ thing (except in the minds of the ignorant and petulant) - sure there are drag acts etc. but they are the exception, and you’re average transvestite is usually heterosexual, mincing around in his wife’s clothes while she’s at bingo, hence it is more than likely that this ‘man in a frock’ is a transgendered person. This is not something I understand very well, but there is psychological and physiological evidence (i.e. the brains of transgendered people) that it is a genuine psychological and/or physiological problem. It is also fair to note that intersex is far more common than many realise http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0139jv4 & http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14459843 .
Perhaps there is less fun in the world these days, but it saddens me that no one has highlighted the irony of Catholics getting hot under the collar about a man in a frock addressing a congregation!
Caroline, above, bless her seems to be getting her theological knickers in a twist: being homosexual is not a sin in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church and therefore the ‘theft’ analogy doesn’t work – and reveals that whatever the Magisterium says, homosexuality equates with sin in the eyes of some of our brethren. Homosexual ‘acts’ are the issue, not being homosexual itself and unless Caroline knows something we don’t about the congregation, then she is skating on very thin ice indeed! Given churches hold special services for deaf people, disabled people, women’s, men’s and children’s services, a service for homosexual Catholics doesn’t seem out of place in the general ‘scheme’ of things. Though, personally, I believe we are called to look for our identity in Christ, rather than little tribal badges.
Whatever, it is curious that something taking part in an unusual church, that has little effect on the wider Church, becomes the subject of opprobrium and comment and yet events of a few months ago elsewhere in the Westminster diocese – Ealing Abbey School – didn’t get a mention. (If Fr T has written on this, please forgive me – but I couldn’t find any mention of a story that dominated the local London news a few months ago, using the search tool on this blog). The acts themselves were bad enough, but the manner in which years of abuse were swept under the carpet is truly shocking and gives us far more to worry about concerning the management of the diocese than a special mass for friends of Dorothy every now and again...
Peter Denshaw
London
The late Bella Dodd must be telling the truth when she publicly confessed in her talk at Fordham U in the 50's that her Communist cohorts ( She was once the leader of the Communist movement in the USA.) sent over a thousand young men to the seminary before the Second World War, with the purpose of becoming priests and to destroy the Church from within. At the time of her confession, she said that those men had started to occupy powerful positions in the Church.
Vatican II must have given those men more power that they now use to accelerate the Destruction of the Church. I recall Pope Paul VI lamenting the evils brought about by Vatican II with the words, " ...from somewhere or other, the smkoe of Satan has entered the Churc!", and " The Church is in a period of auto-demolition...". This was in 1968.
Truly, since Vatican II the Church seems to keep bleeding Herself to death with scandals after scandals, starting with the loss of discipline and morals in the clergy, heretical pronouncements and behavior by Cardinals, Bishops, and even the post-Conciliar Popes.
It seems this recent scandal will not be the last in a church that has gone wrong, a church in which anything goes for as long as it is politically correct.
Truly,according to one well known Catholic author, if it is the destruction of the Church that all these shameless shenanigans and charlatans are doing, the devil could not have done better.
Lettera aperta alla Curia Romana
Patricia/Nicholas:
Some context first: my original post, one of the first batch, was purely in direct response to Fr F's opener: "Look, isn't it about time an end was put to this?".
I fully expected - indeed understand and appreciate - that I may be interpreted as being defeatist. I'm not, I'm just being a realist at a moment in time. Fr F's use of "about time" suggests that we've somehow reached some kind of game-changing moment. We haven't. The only development is that some seven month old recording has now been posted on the Internet. I don't really see that this is some kind of definitive "it's about time" phase we've moved into. I'm certainly not being critical of Fr F here. I'm just simply curious as to why it's judged that "it's about time" now, not last year, or five years ago? Just because a you tube has emerged?
Let's be realistic, Rome has been bombarded with letters and evidence for several years. It was hoped that His Holiness would have addressed the matter during his visit to Britain in 2010. Sadly nothing happened. Moreover, Cardinal Burke was given Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice's dossier in 2010. It was hoped that he would have addressed the situation during his planned speech in Westminster last summer (before the neo-Cons at the Canon Law conference in Harrogate deviously exploited His Eminence's known tendency to over-avoid even the merest whiff of controversy and ensured that he cancelled his engagement - but hey, let's not revisit that mess).
Some hoped that Abp Nichols would move swiftly to cease the Soho Masses once he was installed in Westminster. Others very much doubted it. It really just depended on what his true colours really were. Was he every inch the Worlockian successor some had him nailed as? Or had he been playing a political game since his elevation to the episcopacy in 1992? Well, now we know. If he was going to stop them, he would have done so by now. He hasn't done so because he doesn't wish to. And he's certainly not feeling any heat from Rome. It's nothing to do with timing or sensitivities. Whether we like it or not, Abp Nichols regards the Soho Masses set-up as a true pastoral provision.
I really don't see what difference this you tube makes to Rome's knowledge of the whole matter.
I'm not being defeatist, I'm just playing the tape through to the end here. Because when you're faced with an Archbishop, various Cardinals - and perhaps even a Pope - who won't take direct action about this scandal, then there's really not an awful lot of physical action that those in the pew can employ. That's being realistic.
Prayers and Divine Grace will eventually defeat this error. Of course they will. In the meantime, we're just going to have to accept, however uncomfortably, that the scandal will continue. That's my point. Fr F's opening point was "it's about time" that the Masses were stopped now. Well, yeah, of course it is. But it's not going to be like that.
I mean, what are we going to do, short of physically driving them from the temple? Write to His Grace, or the Nuncio, or Rome, or His Holiness?
See above.
Such is the Vatican II "new springtime." A tree is known by its fruits.
This is an illegal recording and should not have been published, let alone recorded. I am pretty sure this will not make it to the main comments page. Old bigots like you father should be shot and strung up. Jesus was forgiving and understanding - what happened to His Church and those who minister in His Name? More Pharisaical every day
Shot and strung up, Artie? I'd see those as alternatives. Not much point stringing someone up if you have already shot them (or vice versa.)
'...Old bigots like you father should be shot and strung up..."
Do you honestly think we will sit idly by and let you threaten one of our Padres?
I suggest you apologize.
We will not participate or approve of your sin.
Comprendo?
A Mexican Cristero.
*
Martial: You make a good point. I would guess the situation regarding contraception is much the same in the UK as in the USA. When Humanae Vitae came out our then Cardinal Heenan is alleged to have said that the use of contraception was a matter of conscience, whatever that meant. Archbishop Roberts SJ of Bombay openly attacked HV. "The Tablet" has consistently campaigned against HV. The battle was lost from day one and our pastors said and did nothing. It all confirmed the confusion on sexual matters which the 1960s brought in. This confusion must surely have added to the lax attitudes which gave us the scandals, such as Ealing, which have brought so much shame on the church.
1. "Old bigots like you father should be shot and strung up. Jesus was forgiving and understanding."
Obviously Artie is neither! Nor does he have much sense of irony, I should think!
2. Of course all the people in the sanctuary may be in good faith, and living chaste lives, yes. But the thing is still abhorrent. More than anything else it proves conclusively how utterly wrong the new liturgy is, which permits this kind of thing to be staged. Liturgy should not be about the expression of politically correct (or incorrect) statements. It should be about the worship of the living God.
Artie:
The New Testament agrees with and confirms the Old Testament’s condemnation of homosexuality. Could any passage of Scripture be more clear in its condemnation of homosexuality than Paul’s statement found in the first chapter of Romans: “Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;...who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them” (Rom. 1:24-28, 32
I've posted a song of hope (hopefully?)on my blog, for the person in the dress, just incase they read the comments here.
"Mall said...
2. Of course all the people in the sanctuary may be in good faith, and living chaste lives, yes. But the thing is still abhorrent. More than anything else it proves conclusively how utterly wrong the new liturgy is, which permits this kind of thing to be staged. Liturgy should not be about the expression of politically correct (or incorrect) statements. It should be about the worship of the living God."
AMEN! We wouldn't have this if the Mass was Latin EF still!
It's actually a very good point that the new liturgy "facilitates" this sort of thing...which whatever its worth or value as a pastoral response, is admittedly ugly.
Let Mass be about God, and God alone.
In the EF rite, the men on the sanctuary would be wearing cassocks and cottas with lace. There would not be any bidding prayers for people to use to wheel out their hobby horses.
The EF rite provides a healthy outlet for the natural desire for male bonding which becomes pathological only when it becomes sexual.
Add some polyphonic music, leave out the sermon, everyone should be happy and no-one offended. And St Patrick's is a nice setting for the TLM. It unites where the OF has so much potential to divide.
Thank you shadowlands for a voice of reason amongst all this hysteria. In a Europe which has all but forgotten Christianity is it really our priority to spy on and denigrate who gather twice a month to worship (whether it is to our taste or not).
Thank you, Father, for defending the Truth. The Soho Masses are a scandal that should have been dealt with firmly as soon as they became known of, for the salvation of all concerned. The Holy Church needs courageous shepherds now more than ever. I pray that this blog post may inspire other clergy to bravely counter error.
Dear Aaron,
I think you are in danger of misrepresenting what Father has said. What is being criticised is having people stand up at Mass to rubbish the church's teaching on sexuality. That is the issue and it is that issue alone that should be concerning us.
You say that discussing this issue gives a licence for bigoted individuals to indulge in homophobia. I think if you read through the comments there is precious little to support what you say. Indeed what I would say is that when this issue is discussed the response tends to be members of the LGTB community crying "homophobia" rather than discussing it.
Further could it be that Fr Winfrey was expressing disgust at the promotion of homosexual sexual activity rather than the homosexuals themselves as you have judged to be the case?
You say that you suspect that the Soho masses may breed dissent. I suggest you look at the website queeringthechurch.com which is hosted by a leading member of the Soho Masses Pastoral Council. There seems little doubt to me that that Council is actively promoting dissent from the teaching of the Church.
"Let Mass be about God, and God alone."
Amen to that, Aaron SC!
That's why I equate what appears to be going on at that Mass to be fairly similar to what happens at most Masses now in most parishes up and down the country - it's all about "the people" and the people can do "whatever their consciences tell them". I used to be one of those people, until I copped myself on!
And one of the greatest ways to face up to what our Catholic Faith expects of us, even if we do fall every now and then, is to worship God at the Tridentine Mass because that is where it's all about worshipping God, and God alone. And the message at the Tridentine Mass is, if you're not following the teachings of the Church - and the teachings are spelt out clearly - then you cannot receive Holy Communion without first making a good Confession and receiving absolution from a priest. period.
I think Father Tim's reason for posting this particular situation is not to draw the ire and vitriol of the Catholic blogosphere. I tried to make the point that shepherds need to support the apostolates of the church that are dedicated to helping men and women with same sex attraction live chaste lives and grow in holiness (COURAGE in the USA/ENCOURAGE in the UK) and not those that are not in line with Catholic teaching regarding same sex attraction (DIGNITY USA/SOHO MASSES). This isn't about bashing those who happen to have this sort of brokeness. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD. I think that is issue here. I'm certain that Father Tim would be delighted to celebrate Holy Mass for men and women who suffer from the brokenness of same sex attraction and are seeking to live chaste and holy lives in conformity with Catholic teaching. I cannot say whether the people in this video are living chaste lives in conformity to Church teaching. The tone of the prayers themselves when listened to however tend toward a tacit support for those not living in conformity to Church teaching. That was my take on it. I may be wrong. I think there are very valid points from posters on here regarding charity. Jesus indeed was there to love and forgive those of his day who were broken in varying ways but he didn't afirm them in their brokeness. His Eminence Cardinal Burke is very supportive of the Courage Apostolate in America and I have to say that any shepherd worth his salt should by virtue of his office be doing the same. No one is in a position to throw stones. As I stated earlier in a previous comment there is a wider issue with dissent from Church teaching in the Church: READ CONTRACEPTION I'll say it again but I have personally yet to hear a sermon from a Roman Catholic priest or bishop in the pulpit setting the faithful straight on this issue. I'm amazed sometimes at how this particular elephant in the living room is completely overlooked! The people perish for lack of knowledge and lack of shepherds I might add.
I would further point out that every priest has a duty to clearly state from the altar at every Mass, so there's no doubt, that sexual relations between anyone - old or young, straight or gay, outside of two people within a Catholic marriage, precludes them from receiving Holy Communion at Mass, and or if they use contraceptives, etc. And equally, if they do not attend Mass every Sunday (or Saturday Vigil) without some serious reason, they are not in a state of grace, and therefore unable to receive Holy Communion in this case either, until they have made a good Confession.
is it really our priority to spy on and denigrate who gather twice a month to worship (whether it is to our taste or not).
Timothy I don't think it is a matter of spying or denigrating but a realisation by some Catholics at least that the Liturgy is not the property of any one congregation or priest; the Liturgy is the property of the whole Church - all one billion plus. In addition, a person involved in an active homosexual lifestyle is not in the state of grace, even if they went to confession but have no intention not to continue an active homosexual lifestyle, and such a person, and all people not in a state of grace, should not present themselves for Holy Communion because they commit a sin of sacrilege if they do so and cannot receive the grace of the sacrament. It is an act of charity to try and prevent people commit a sin of sacrilege.
is it really our priority to spy on and denigrate who gather twice a month to worship
Mass is not a private affair. While it is generally not broadcast to the larger public, it is still in a sense part of the public record, so characterizing it as spying or as one nut put it, "an illegal recording" is just silly. The Church's call for chastity is universal and not merely a matter of taste. I didn't see any petition in there about helping people live chastely.
Epsilon
I disagree with the implication that unless you attend the Tridentine Mass, you are just doing whatever your own whims or conscience tells you to. The Holy Spirit does not limit Himself to EF preferers, not according to my Church's teachings anyway. He blows where He WILLS. How can we know the heart of every person at the Soho Mass, or if God is reaching down to souls there? Jesus goes everywhere. He inhabits everywhere. If we earnestly seek Him ,we WILL find Him.
A good way to begin to have ones conscience formed, to the point where altering of actions begins to happen naturally, is the praying of the rosary.
As with the whole of Our Lady's life on earth, in heaven she still operates in this 'silent but deadly' way (to the baddies assailing us, that is, not to us, her children, whom she loves).
My own life as a growing Catholic, I can see a huge turning point was in being introduced personally (yes sorry to those who can't stand the thought of personal relationships) by Jesus, to Our Lady.
I have much pruning (ouch!) that still needs doing, but I have an assurance of a God who loves me and a Mother directing me. If! I let her. I don't always let her. A self will run riot as long as mine was, takes a bit of realligning.
Learning about the differences between us Catholics was such a shock to me. I truly thought we were all of the same heart hahaha. We aren't.
Fellowshipping on blogger? Sometimes It's like being a new packet of coloured plasticine strips all squashing together in a cold butcher's larder (you know, it all goes hard and a yucky browny/grey colour?) but we are being moulded into a Kingdom. The Kingdom of God!
And to God, it IS all about the people. We are the building blocks He will use, to build heaven. (so Derek Prince, the famous protestant missionary said)!
God bless all.
"...(so Derek Prince, the famous protestant missionary said)!..."
Protestants protest against Christ and His Bride; much the same as Nonserviam of Satan.
Luciferians, publicly known as Jewish Freemasonry, worship God alone, and consider themselves as God.
Not respecting God's will, and creating our own and pretending it is God's will is just plain stupidity.
May God our Lord in His infinite and supreme goodness be pleased to give us His abundant grace, that we may know His most holy will, and entirely fulfill it.
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Listen, some of you, it’s about the One, True, Holy, Eternal Catholic Mass, why don’t you get it ? We go to Mass SOLELY to worship Almighty God, not to be forced to listen to what looks like a Catholic priest droning on about “celebrating” sodomy and similarly-grouped deviations, plus genuine 100% weirdoes, men dressed in women’s clothing addressing the congregation from the altar for Goodness’ sake. What is the matter with you people ? Celebrating ??? That is fundamentally sick.
Dressing in women’s clothing is a perversion, did your parents not teach you that ? Normal people just do not do it, especially posturing and simpering like brazen, pantomime dames on the altar of a Catholic church during “Mass”. What’s next ? Don’t answer, please.
People with homosexual tendencies are to be pitied, sure, life is very difficult, join the club, but they are defo not to be celebrated.
Aaron Saunderson-Cross : "When will it stop ? Why are they allowed to behave like this and call themselves Catholic ?"
Yes, it is about tolerance perhaps, not tolerance of blatant exhibitionism on the very altar of a Catholic church, which some clearly desire ardently, but tolerance of the rights of those Catholics who desire, yearn even, to go to Mass to worship, not to listen to political and sexual claptrap. What some want is not tolerance, it is outright revolution. Wake up.
That they are allowed to behave like this in a Catholic church, brandishing their perversions is a source of public scandal and thereby unCatholic. Thanks to the good Father for doing his Catholic duty.
And I ask you, with tears in my eyes - can you believe so many people claim the SSPX is “outside the Church” ? Just try this sort of caper in one their churches and you will soon find yourself in the street I’ll bet.
Shadowlands - I hardly go to any Tridentine Masses because I have to travel too far to get to them. Going to many different churches to find a place where both the people and the priest are singing from the same hymn sheet helps one to see what's going on.
The one thing they all have in common is that the priest never states "the rules" categorically. Some don't because they don't personally agree with "the rules", some because they don't want to alienate the people, some because it would be reported that they are too radical and they'd be moved on.
Because of the limitations of communicating through blogs it is easy to misunderstand others. I understand exactly where you are coming from and I admire your faith. Forgive me if I misunderstand your judgement on Catholics who see the Catholic Faith being watered down to sickly-sweet mutual backslapping, and want to do something about it.
If a man dressed as a woman came and sat next to me in a church I would treat him with nothing but total respect as another human being, made in the image and likeness of God.
I don't mind how people dress in a church so long as it is modestly - i.e. not showing body parts that might be a distraction to others.
When a person prays publicly in a church at Mass for organisations that are hell bent on destroying the Catholic Church and all that it stands for - it's a different matter.
When a person in front of all the pews, acting as conductor / pianist (when there is an organ in the church) facing away from the altar, towards the choir, dressed immodestly, totally ignores the Consecration at Mass because they are so busy with their "music ministry" - frankly there's something wrong.
When a priest in his homily of the third Sunday in Ordinary Time, where we heard 1 Corinthians 7:29-31 starts off with the shame of the Church scandals and ends by saying everyone today has a right to sexual expression - there is something radically wrong.
When an ordinary Catholic who sees many things going on that are acting against the Faith knows there's no point in contacting their bishop or even Rome - there is something diabolically going on.
We need to pray a lot more Rosaries...
Thank you, Father!
People like you are providing the Catholic leadership so sorely needed and wanting in England today.
I have written on numerous occasions to Archbishop Nichols on this matter and never received a reply.
"What man is there among you, of whom if his son shall ask bread, will he reach him a stone?"
"Normally I don’t publish nasty comments..."
Yet you see fit, Fr. to publish Jeremiah Methuselah's comments.
The point to me is that this "Gay" Mass is grossly offensive to all those thousands of good people, priests and lay, who strive daily to overcome their sexual weaknesses, and to lead good and chaste lives.
They do not need to be told - "it's all ok, do what you want, and you're still a full part of the Church."
No - by our sins we separate ourselves from the Church. We know what out sins are, and we know who we are. And we know that the Sacraments are there to help us.
Those who teach the contrary have no love for Sinners.
Shame! Shame! Shame on you, Artie! When you say things like that, you only provide further fodder for the hate-mongering of the religious right. I am horrified and appalled by such a remark, and speaking as a gay Catholic, I condemn it unequivocally.
Only yesterday an ex-colleague of a friend turned up without warning at his birthday party dressed as a woman - he had a vague notion of having met 'her' somewhere before! Honestly, what is the world coming to.
It's that combination of victimhood and exhibitionism that I find particularly offensive – and wholly inappropriate at Holy Mass. And for that reason alone the archbishop really should get his act together.
Thank you for posting this Father. I read a poignant post on another blog which, although the post itself was talking specifically of silence before Mass, says a lot about the attitude toward God, the Mass and the Magisterium today. It was; "A mistaken ecclesiology has crept in, based on a partial reading of Vatican II, which has, at the practical level, accorded a higher value to the group of people gathered for worship rather than to the God whom we worship." People today are too concerned with pleasing their neighbour by instantly accepting everything they do instead of acting with true charity and bring Christ, His Gospel and His natural law to them. I know and understand that the Church's teaching on sexuality can be difficult for some to hear but we do them no favours at all by dumbing it down or changing it to suit the individual.
Dear Joshua - thank you for your comment. I commend your sincerity and good sense and will remember you in my prayers. God bless you.
The Canadian Bishops issued a good Pastoral letter to people with Same Sex Attraction; it can be seen at:
http://www.cccb.ca/site/eng/media-room/3155-pastoral-letter-to-young-people-with-same-sex-attraction
This is how our hierachy should be caring pastorally for people who are attracted to the same sex; not aiding them or glossing over the error of their choices.
It looks like the abomination of desolation: the idolatry of the totalitarian regime of relativism on full display in the house of God, next to His altar. Ave Maria!
http://catholictakingaction.blogspot.com.au/ Hey Father, check out the situation in Sydney Australia.
God bless!
Why are many of our parishes not catholic anymore. Because they were decatholicised by people coming among the congregation , uttering their heresies, and leading catholics astray. How will they be catholicised again? By people going into their parishes, attending meetings, taking catechesis when they can, and putting the truth to the parishioners. It does not take fisticuffs or fights, just a presence and the courage to speak up. So with the Soho Masses, if so many are receiving Our Lord sacriligeously then let others attend, not to decry, not to protest, but to receive Our Lord in a holy and truly faithful way. Catholicise the Soho Mass. Where would Jesus be in this. He would not be outside but among the Soho Mass attenders and by his example calling them to repentance. Writing blogs can be useful, but they will not change anything. Only showing love in this way will win over the gays.
What appalls me the most is not one single Faithful shouted "Blasphemy! Sacrilege!"
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http://catholictakingaction.blogspot.com.au/
This is a really good blog...
The only downside is they do not have my website or blogs mentioned on their sidebar...
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Ok. I am homosexual, however I decided it was a very frustrating and destructive sexual expression. All I wanted was to be loved and to feel special. So I turned myself into an object and treated others as sexual objects. Through tears and frustration I grasped that I became what I did. So I stopped it all.
Many years ago I went to one of these Gay Masses in London. It was all very covert. I found it twisted. Boyfriends holding hnads in Mass. Boyriends who had had sex probably the night before sticking their hands out for communion. The priest titilated by young things doing all the things he wanted but dare not. The aim was to subvert and undermine and listening to the contents of those bidding pryaers subversion is what it was all about. Listen to me you who critisize Fr Finigan. Either you don't want to listen or you want to stay trapped in an empty frustrating way of life that will see you alone and certainly trapped. No man can live life with no self respect and control while pretending he is happy. Do you really love and want to love forever. Then do not use others...do not even consentually use. Sex if for love in a monogomous heterosexual marriage. There is a connection between your soul and body. DON'T pretend. Be honest. The omosexal life is full of secrets, deceptions, creulty and emotional chaos. Is that the life any human would want to live?
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