The Irish Government is closing its embassy to the Holy See because it yields no economic return, apparently. The 14 consulates in Spain (in addition to the embassy at Madrid) will remain open, including those in Lanzarote and Tenerife, as well as the consulates in Cannes, Antwerp and Bermuda. And I guess that the consulate at Guardabaer in Iceland must be bringing in lots of lolly. (See here for a list of
Irish diplomatic missions.)
Relations between the Holy See and Ireland are "not in question" according to the press spokesman of the Holy See. Nevertheless for my next holiday, rather than visit Ireland, I thought I might visit somewhere where the government is less hostile to the Catholic Church. North Korea, Yemen ...?
I would never have made a good diplomat.
16 comments:
I recently moved from the Irish Republic to Northern Ireland. I use different money, have stopped using my PPS (tax) number and use a National Insurance number instead; I have gotten accustomed to having an MP instead of (several) TDs. The one constant is the feeling of embarassment at the antics our politicians. Shame on them but shame on us for voting for them.
Never thought I'd say this but I miss the last FF-Green Party government.
Shane.
I agree it's a snub, but I don't think we should give the move a greater status than it deserves. It is a petty and highly political manoeuvre, and it is clear from the Vatican's reaction that everyone knows this.
The Irish Republic also has THREE embassies in Brussels - one to Belgium, one to the EU, and most ludicrously of all, one to NATO. But, you will say, Ireland is not a member of Nato - quite!!
Of course, Ireland could always use the good offices of the United Kingdom mission to the Holy See.
The old curmudgeonly DeValera would turn in his grave, nasty old bigot that he was.
Could not some of the recent developments in Ireland be a reaction to a couple of centuries of clerical domination of political and family life. So, the old Unionist jibe that the Republic was "priest ridden" (true!) no longer applies.
I have made the sad decision to return my Irish passport and get a British one over this so called goverments decision, hope more will do the same
1569 Rising, your characterisation of De Valera is as absurd as your assertion about Irish family and political life having been for centuries dominated by clergy. Clearly Irish history was never your strong point, but there's no need to make such an exhibition of yourself.
As for the unionist jibe about Ireland being priest ridden --- for the last hundred years the three main Protestant denominations on this island (CoI, PCI and MCI) have had at all times a higher proportion of ministers to their nominal adherents than the Irish Catholic Church has had priests.
Shane.
I agree that this is an extraordinary snub from one of the - supposedly - most Catholic countries in the world. And giving "economic" reasons for it, is hard to believe!
The costs of running a small embassy are not really that high. Salary for one or two diplomats, a secretary, a driver and real estate expenses, which can be as little as renting an appartment and a residence.
A catholic country should have an ambassador to the Holy See, especially when some protestant, secular and even muslim countries do!
However, one should not get too worked about it. If you read the relevant news releases, you will see that there will still be an Irish
Ambassador to the Holy See, albeit a non-resident one. That is, he
will conduct his affairs in conjunction with another posting or from
Dublin. An option that has become quite popular recently in times of
instant communication.
Secondly, it seems that Ireland has a very small diplomatic network in comparison to other countries of similar size. They have only a handful of embassies and are now closing three more.
Thirdly, the examples of the Consulates that remain open are not
really valid, I am afraid, Father. Those are all Honorary Consulates, which means that either a
local dignitary or an Irish expatriate gets to use this title usually
with no remuneration (!) at all. So having honorary consulates does
not cost much, and is a good way of having a presence somewhere
without having to pay any diplomats.
Not a snub......no...no, not 'atall and skunks don't stink.
Not for the first time, this contemptible government has brought shame on the people of Ireland. I am seriously thinking about emigrating.
Priest-ridden? I wondered about this subject a few years ago in Co Kerry when I found some holidaying Ulster Presbyterians in my Church of Ireland congregation. I knew this was what they were, because they told me so after Mass, in the process of asking me to sign their 'books'. This appeared to be necessary in order to prove that they had 'been to Church' to their Minister when they got back home. I found myself recollecting that if the Catholic Church had some system like this for checking up on its people, this would be regarded as Priestly Tyranny.
If the Irish government were really committed to reducing its expenditure in these tough economic times it would do better to try and reduce the ridiculous amont of money it spends of its under-worked, grossly over-paid civil service. Hang on, that's not a runner; you cant attack the 'most vulnerable in society' ie civil servants with nice state guaranteed pensions. The closing of the embassy in Rome has of course nothing to do with cost savings no matter how much Eamon Gilmore, our Labour minister for foreign affairs might try to say so. The dogs on the street know what this is about: getting one over on the Church. It's about them saying that this increasingly secular, anti-clerical governement is now top dog, and the Church can do nothing about it.
Thanks also for the link Father for the Irish embassies and consulates. Looking at it it's easy to see the reasons for the purely economic decision that the governement made; Irish trade and cultural links with with with the likes of Oman and Zimbabwe are far more important....
Perhaps Irish visitors to all the places where they still have consulates are more likely to be in need of assistance... just a thought.
But it was obvious a decade ago, to those who could read the signs that the Irish Republic was headed for trouble when the country was receiving oodles of dosh from the EU structural fund, the main effect of which was to fuel the property boom which brought the country to financial disaster.
It is certainly a snub - or a declaration of cold way - but it's not a Combes Laws type snub. It's a snub that is driven by ordinary(form) Catholics who have been fed a disrespect for Rome and for Roman things by their clergy for generations. Perhaps this will make things clearer to the Holy See and it will take a stronger line with the Church in Ireland... if it hasn't been fed the same diet for generations...
@Father Finigan
You may never have made a good diplomat Father Tim (who cares) , but you were once a godsend when you visited me in a Cat AA prison, and you are certainly a great blogger, as this post and the associated comments have made me LOL big time :-)
I am once again facing serious criminal charges, which I wholeheartedly dispute, and I should find out on Friday at 3pm when I attend my bail meeting, if the Met Police, & the CPS intend to prosecute me.
Our Lady of the Rosary pray for us!
PAPA VERO ORA PRO NOBIS!
1569 Rising, this is the wordking of the original Article 44, 1 of the Irish Constitution that was put to the people, who approved it, in 1937 by that 'nasty old bigot, De Valera: 'Article 44 1.
1.The State acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to Almighty God. It shall hold His Name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion.
2.The State recognises the special position of the Holy Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church as the guardian of the Faith professed by the great majority of the citizens.
3.The State also recognises the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, the Methodist Church in Ireland, the Religious Society of Friends in Ireland, as well as the Jewish Congregations and the other religious denominations existing in Ireland at the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution.'
This was the only constitution that I'm aware of that gave formal recognition to the Jewish people, at a time when a truly nasty bigot from Austria was trying to exterminate them.
That section of Article 44 was amended by the people in a referendum on 5 January 1973 and now reads: 'The State acknowledges that the homage of public worship is due to Almighty God. It shall hold His Name in reverence, and shall respect and honour religion'.
Yes, the decision of the Irish government is short-sighted and has ittle or nothing to do with saving money. But the Vatican itself has non-resident nuncios assigned to many countries. At the moment it has no nuncio in Ireland.
The Vatican should withdraw and cease all diplomatic relations with Ireland, refuse to recognise the non-resident Irish ambassador to the Holy See.
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