Fr Andrew Brookes OP answers a question today: Quodlibet 34 - The differences between Dominicans and Franciscans?. I must confess that when I saw this in the feed reader, I thought it was going to be a humorous answer as there are many jokes about such questions.
Don't worry - I will tell you one in a minute, but before that, have a look at Fr Andrew's post because it is a good, brief answer to the kind of question that many people ask. Jokes about rivalry between religious orders are just friendly banter: among those who respect their own vocation, there is always a great respect for the authentic vocation of others. Here is the conclusion of Fr Andrew's answer:
Although both Dominic and Francis both lived very poor personal lives, Franciscans are seen to place a higher value on poverty as an end in itself in following Jesus whereas Dominicans tend to see it as helping us to live simply and be free to preach and to love and to trust in God, so it is more of a means to an end, perfection consisting in love of God and neighbour.Now for the joke - with apologies if you have heard it before.
There have sometimes been historical tensions between the groups but there are also strong links binding us together as parts of the one body of Christ.
Which order is more successful, the Dominicans or the Jesuits?
The Dominicans were founded by St Dominic to fight the heresy of Albigensianism. The Jesuits were founded by St Ignatius Loyola to fight Protestantism... So when did you last meet an Albigensian?
16 comments:
Having routed the Albigensians, the Dominicans have rather been kicking their heels since the 13th century... Perhaps, within the New Evangelisation initiative, a crusade against Bultmann-type secularisation, which I believe lies at the root of many of our problems?
c'mon Father thats unfair; the Domminicans had the the might of papal armies at their disposal :), also remember that the Jesuits did win Poland back to the faith
That's my second favorite Jesuit joke! My first is:
How many Jesuits does it take to screw in a light bulb?
4. 1 to screw in the lightbulb while the other three write articles for America magazine condemning papal infallibility.
I had the exact same thought when I read Fr. Andrew's title as well. Was a little disappointed that I'd missed out on some expected ecclesiastical humour- thank you for righting that for me Fr!
What do you get if you cross a Third Order Carmelite family with a Third Order Dominican? A Capuchin Franciscan! Best of both worlds...
Actually, more concretely, the difference is at the level of the Rule. The Dominicans follow the Rule of St. Augustine and we have our own written by St. Francis. The Doms are doing very well for vocations here in Ireland (they've put a lot of hard work into it) and perhaps with a recovery of some Thomist spirit they may yet make a positive impact here. I almost applied to them but in the end the path of the Poverello of Assisi was too much to miss. Pax et Bonum!
I have only ever once attended the ordination Mass for a member of a religious order. That was in 1999 and the young man concerned was Fr Brendan Slevin OP, now chaplain at Strathclyde University, Glasgow.
After more than a decade my memory might be a wee bit dodgy. However, my recollection is that the ordination Mass was celebrated on the Feast of St Francis and that the Franciscan fraternity was heavily represented. Indeed, if memory serves correctly, the preacher at the ordination Mass was a Franciscan.
I remember being told, by Fr Clarence Gallagher SJ, former Rector of the Pontifical Oriental Institute, Rome, but by then based at Campion Hall, Oxford, near to Blackfriars where Fr Brendan had trained -- but who was in attendance as a family friend and fellow parishioner of Holy Family, Mossend (my own parish) -- that where there were Dominicans and Franciscans living as close neighbours then on the patronal feast of the one founder, a preacher would be invited from the other, his confrefreres all attending as honoured guests.
Gods Dogs? Perhaps, but never Dogs of War, spiritual or otherwise. Even although Franciscans would be obliged to love them if they were!
ferrumveritatis - I did LOL
Br Tom - many thanks for your comment and I liked the joke.
Reminds me of the one about the Benedictine, the Jesuit and the Franciscan who find an egg laid by a wild chicken.
The Benedictine composed a beautiful prayer, thanking God for the gift of the egg.
The Jesuit wrote a great and eloquent sermon, using the egg as a symbol of the Resurrection
Meanwhile... the Fransican fried the egg and ate it!
:-)
The Albigensians? Massacred. "Kill them all, God will recognise His own." The Dominicans can claim no credit for that. But they do still produce some terrific preachers.
I think that quotation is now generally regarded as apocryphal. There is a lot of nonsense talked about Catharism today, ignoring the fact that it was a socially destructive movement. The Dominicans played a part in preaching against it and in the reconciliation of heretics.
The friendly rivalry between Dominicans and Jesuits was in evidence many years ago in Rome. At the Angelicum one heard much about St. Thomas (of course…) but not too much about famous Jesuits. Our professor for Logic was a kindly old Irish Dominican (the only Irishman on the Faculty as I recall). Once he did quote a Jesuit (Suarez, perhaps) and as he wrote his name on the board and appended “S.J.”, he turned and said mischievously “quae significat… ‘Soft Job’…”
Later at the Gregorian the situation would be reversed and more Bellarmine than Aquinas would be referenced – but with less humor.
I literally just returned from a vocations weekend with the Eastern USA Province of the Dominicans, and I heard there that the Franciscans are regarded as especially close brethren. They call him "Holy Father Francis" and his day is a major feast for the Order.
BTW, that province is currently enjoying its largest vocations boom in 45 years. 23 new novices this year. The Order of Preachers is rapidly arming for the battle ahead.
I also heard discussion about the differences between the two Orders at the Dominican vocations weekend. A friar told me that (generally) Dominicans seek knowledge of God in order to love Him better, while the Franciscans seek to love God more in order to know Him better. Complementary approaches.
By way of an update, I just heard yesterday from a priest at the Capuchin friary in my deanery that their students go to Blackfriars in Oxford.
How about, who sets a better example on following the Pope's example on the Reform of the Reform. The Dominicans or Franciscans?. Well I see a return of the old Dominican Rite, and I see Franciscans still playing guitars!.
I know this is kind of late, but...
We attend Mass at a chapel on the grounds of a Dominican motherhouse. Saying Mass one Sunday was a priest from a nearby Benedictine monastery. During his homily, he quoted FR Groeschel.
After Mass, I mentioned to the priest: "Now that's ecumenism! A Benedictine quoting a Franciscan while in a Dominican chapel!" He laughed.
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