Anonymous said...Well we know that Mgr Langham has a blog Solomon I Have Surpassed Thee about Westminster Cathedral and a google/blogger profile Administrator. Therefore what has happened here is that some lackey ("anonymous") has been asked to spam the press release round to various blogs. Thank you for that. Do feel free to reply, readers, if you wish.
This from Mgr Langham:
Mgr. Mark Langham, Administrator of Westminster Cathedral explains the background to the concert and Sir John Tavener's composition. [...]
Wednesday, 20 June 2007
99 names of Allah - official line
In the combox of the post Outline for Prayer Vigil, there was a comment which began:
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16 comments:
Fr. Tim,
At the risk of saying too much on this subject, I have superimposed my comments in square brackets on Mgr Langham’s statement:
“‘The Beautiful Names’ is a concert performance (not a liturgical act of worship) of a new work by John Tavener” [OK, but a Cathedral is the House of God, with a Tabernacle which contains His Real Presence – not an auditorium, so you shouldn’t be using it as concert hall in the first place].
“In discussion with him it was agreed from the beginning that a work by a catholic [it’s spelled with a capital ‘C’ actually] composer – Tomas Luis de Victoria – would be included in the programme, to emphasise that there is one God worshipped by Christians and Moslems” [this is a gross over-simplification of the profound theological difference between the two faiths on the nature of God].
“As Lumen Gentium says of Moslems, ‘together with us they worship the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.’” [Thank you for not using the inclusive language translation of the Conciliar texts!]
“The Holy Father himself underlined this when he prayed in a Mosque in Turkey” [Pope Benedict would completely disagree with your spin on his visit to the mosque in Istanbul – it was partly a courtesy call and partly a damage limitation exercise, and he was obliged to wear a bullet-proof vest at the time].
“As the chief Catholic Church in this country, Westminster Cathedral must reflect the Church’s concern to dialogue with those of other faiths” [No, actually – as the chief church, it must be exemplary in its expounding and articulation of the Catholic Faith, and in its defence of fundamental doctrines, especially when these are directly challenged by secularists or non-Christians].
“Firm in our own beliefs, and never failing to proclaim Jesus Christ as the Way, the Truth, and the Light [more reductionism – I think you mean God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten not made, of one being with the Father, through Him all things were made…], we must nevertheless heed the call (in the words of Nostra Aetate) to ‘recognize what is true and holy’ in other faiths ‘which often reflect a ray of truth that enlightens all men’” [But Catholicism’s acceptance of what is good and holy in other faiths does not neutralize the fact that Catholicism completely condemns everything that is false and unholy about other religions].
“In the present world climate, this prayerful dialogue can help achieve the hope expressed by John Tavener, that his work will contribute to an ‘inward healing of the appalling strife that permeates the modern world.’” [There can be no genuine dialogue whatsoever with a religion which dismisses Christianity as a superseded religion whose adherents must unconditionally submit to the will of Allah and the "definitive revelation" given to his "prophet"].
And to my conclude my response to Mgr. Langham, I quote from Pope John Paul in “Crossing the Threshold of Hope,” “The religiosity of Muslims deserves respect.” However, “Whoever knows the Old and New Testaments, and then reads the Koran, clearly sees the process by which it completely reduces divine revelation.”
How was the prayer vigil? There was a terrible thunder storm in West London yesterday evening.
If the music wasn't an act of worship, what was it doing in the premier Catholic church in England?
Dialogue is not and never will be fostered by a dilution of Catholic -or any other- beliefs just because it may appear to be politically expedient or *shudder* 'inclusive' or because the hearers might not like it. I for one am pretty fed up with the wet apologetic way we proclaim the faith in this country...Struth, and I'm moderate!! I suppose the publicity will be good in some quarters, Tony Blair might give a pat on the back. But from where I stand, as merely pew fodder, it was misjudged, ill-conceived, and has done nothing for our faith at all.
Father, many thanks for your Catholic witness to this blasphemous event. If only we had a bishop with such courage. How many bishops, I wonder, were in the congregation.
In response to Mgr Langham's nonsense, I think Francis has said all it in his comment on the original entry.
The Administrator's self-justifying words are a betrayal of Christ and His Church. His contribution on Radio 4 with the redoubtable Daphne MacLeod last week was pathetic and compared badly with Mrs MacLeod's robust defence of the Faith and her charitible recognition that Muslims were also likely to be offended by this event.
Mgr Langham doesn't appear to want to sully his own blog with this stuff - the absence of any reference to the occasion and the cowardice with which the 'Anonymous' announcement was made speak volumes.
Liam - in God's providence, the rain held off until we had finished singing Faith of our Fathers :-)
Presumably it's not against Canon Law to stage a concert in a consecrated church, but are there stipulations as to the content of the concert, do you know?
Hear Hear!!!! Francis has hit the nail squarely on the head!!!
Stop sullying Catholic Churches and Cathedrals with islam. Look what's going on in the Middle East with the destruction of Churches, murder and subjugation of Christians to shariah law, convert or die by the sword etc...
WHY in heavens name does our Catholic Hierarchy cow-tow to this so-called religion of peace.
Just let's see how many mosques anywhere in the world would allow a Catholic 'performance' (mealy mouthed crap from Mgr Langham - of course its all about proclaiming allah!) within Catholic walls!
I'm just so angry with this whole episode and sadly I see it as but the tip of a putrifying pile in the UK that must make our Holy Martyrs of England and Wales weep.
It makes me wonder, what was all their suffering and sacrifice for?
I hope someone has sent details of this to the highest levels at the Vatican. If proclaiming the 99 names of allah in front of the Blessed Sacrament isn't sacrilege then please tell me what is!????
I have put this in another blog but I am sorry to say that it was a mistake.
The problem in the West in general is that people (Religious or not) seem to think that it is OK to be inclusive not to upset not to offend even if it means watering down their laws, beliefs and traditions. I speak besides English Arabic and a little Chaldean and I yes like Father in this blog correctly said we do call God Allah when we pray in Arabic even as Christians but please note we will live, work respect and be friends with our Muslim neighbours be it in the East or the West BUT I do share something with many Muslim people! I would not compromise or water down my faith just so that I would fit in. I could never ever think of a Mosque hosting a reading from the Bible (why should they?) But in England our Church leaders do! I hope that it was worth it. The values of Christianity is being watered down and eroded by society, media and other faiths but it is truly sad state of affairs when the Church leaders engage in such s shameless act of wanting to be oh so PC. Please leave that to some members of the church of England who have time and again gone down that path only to find that they have not pleased anyone. You can never please all the people and when you try you will always fail. By the way many Muslim people would themselves feel very uncomfortable being in a Church and would have a hard time trying to understand the motivation or benefit of such an act. I mean is it just empty gesture or is it an act of faith? If it is the former then I do not get it, why did we allow a Cathedral to become theatre when London is full of them?
Within the social context of the ''inclusive'', relativist, secularist West Catholiciism has a major fight on its hands. It is evident that many in the Church have become so drenched in that spirit of the times that they fail to see the danger to the True Faith that the seeming supine indulgence of the kind manifest by the administrators of Westminster Cathedral presents. Islam makes claims to be the true faith given by God to Abraham. Consequently, to a Muslim our faith is not just error but a rejection of God's plan for mankind. In Islam there can be no compromise with such disobedience. Whatever the responsible authorities at Westminster thought they were doing to further "interfaith relations" crashes hard against that wall. Were our faith, personal and collective, as strong as that of Muslims the use of a Catholic church for the Tavener work would have been unthinkable.
As a recent convert (I was received into the Church this Easter), I am deeply saddened to come across so many bitter and uncharitable posts on this blog. I find it hard to square the vicious personal attacks on Fr Mark with the Faith you claim to profess. His warmth and generosity, his humility and his thoughtful and heartfelt devotion to his ministry are, by contrast, an inspiration. Little wonder that he should not want to 'sully' his own blog with such bickering, for it is in no way representative of the life of the Cathedral. And what presumption to imagine that he would concern himself with postings on this blog when he has so many other more important and worthwhile things with which to occupy himself. I am only glad that I had the good fortune to come across Fr Mark's example before I encountered the ill-spirited and divisive remarks on this blog.
bitter and uncharitable ... vicious personal attacks
To be honest, James, I think that is a little OTT. People do have strong views but have mostly kept to the issues. After reading your comment I did have a look through and delete one comment that was unnecessarily personal.
Thank you for telling us of Fr Mark's good qualities and I am glad that he has been such a good inspiration for you.
I've been keeping a close eye on this and let me say, as a Christian living in a Muslim country, that I find this entire thing absurdly ridiculous. What in the world would possess a Catholic priest to host a concert extolling the name of the Muslim God, in whose name such tremendous persecution was unleashed against the Christians? It's beyond me and it is certainly beyond many of the Christians living in areas dominated by Islam. To us and to many Christians living in Muslim countries and standing up for the faith a great personal cost, this smacks to betrayal and appeasement. Personally, I'm insulted.
Besides the fact that there is no reciprocity, as many commenters have noted, and besides the fact that the Muslims who should be appeased are going to get incensed if word gets out the wrong way (and knowing their disposition to over-excitement, to put it mildly, it's not beyond the pale of reason) the calling on of the name of another deity in a Christian place of worship smacks to idolatry. Calling on the name of God is worship. Do you know what calling on the names of Allah signify in Islam? Do you know what it means to do that?
Yes, as many have noted, Allah is the generic name for God used by Arabic Christians long before Muhamamd and is also the name for God in Malay for Christians who worship in that language in Malaysia, the 'person' signified and identified by that name are 2 completely different entities. Muslims know of no God except he who has no son and is not the Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Christians no of no God who is not the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. A rose by any other name may smell just as sweet but calling dung a rose does not make it so.
Finally, thank you, Father, for your leadership in standing up for the Faith in these times. As you have not been ashamed to confess Christ, may He also confess and acknowledge you before His Father on the Last Day.
Andrew - thank you very much for that perspective from a Christian living in a Muslim country.
Andrew's courageous witness to Christ in a muslim country puts us in the UK to shame. Smug, comfortable, Mass once a week or perhaps only at Christmas, confession - never 'cos we don't believe in sin, etc....
It seems that the Church ie - the Faithful, only grow strong when persecuted. This has often been stated before, witness the strength of the Church in Poland while under communist oppression - now too, it seems to be weakening as western paganism, consumerism and relativism sets in.
Perhaps this islamic 'threat' to our Catholic Faith and way of life is not such a bad thing if it gets people off their backsides and prevents us from losing the most precious personal possession in the world for each and every one of us - Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ.
God Bless you Andrew and all your fellow Catholics living under muslim rule.
First, on whether "Allah" is the "same God" as God the Father of our Blessed Lord: my considered view is that He is. Even insofar as a concept of God is achievable by human reason, I think the Christian theological tradition has always held that this is grounded in an awareness of the truth (even if only a partial awareness). Of course the pre-Christian concept of God (as held by, for example, Abraham, our father in faith) was less clear and developed than our own; nevertheless, it was compatible with the Christian view, and even perhaps contained the seeds of a trinitarian view (consider the mysterious "three men" of Genesis 18:2). And the early fathers of the Church, in speaking lightheartedly of "Saint Socrates", clearly took the view that even though pagans like Plato and Aristotle were totally ignorant of scriptural revelation, their albeit dim awareness of God was true awareness of the true God, not a man-made monster like the golden calf.
What we see in the Islamic and Jewish rejection of the revelation of God in Christ is not the development of a doctrine about a false god, but a turning-away from the truth of the true God. Insofar as they faithfully express those truths that God has revealed to us in the Old Testament, therefore, the Islamic and Jewish traditions are holy and true. Insofar as they deny what God has chosen (at incalculable cost) further to reveal, they are decisively to be rejected as false, and such falsehoods indeed must have no place in a Christian place of worship.
If, then, the partial vision of Islam and Judaism is, as I am arguing, tainted by its rejection of truth, does it follow that the concept of God in Islam and Judaism is then wholly false, and so comparable to the demonic man-made idols of the Canaanites? Can a Jew or a Moslem bear no witness to the biblical revelation of God?
In my tentative view, such witness, even if inadequate (and all human witness is inadequate!) is not necessarily vitiated. For example, if a Jew or a Moslem, contemplating Old Testament revelation, prayerfully and devoutly affirms biblical truths about God, and does not qualify or corrupt them by superadding denials of truth, or man-made inventions, then surely this is something that Christians can appropriate in good conscience as true and holy - without in any way appropriating falsehoods that other non-Christians may proclaim at other times or places.
Lutherans hold some doctrines about redemption that Catholics have rejected and condemned as false. If a devout and educated Lutheran were to compose a musical work that centered on the mystery of the redemption, and invited meditation on it, should we ban its performance from Catholic churches? Would it be a desecration? In my view, the question should be taken on its merits. If the work propounds no false doctrine, and if it does not threaten to mislead by disproportionately representing some elements at the expense of others, then my view is that it is wholesome and worthy of respect, even if it is the work of someone who had some false ideas.
I don't see a good theological case for banning the music of JS Bach from Catholic churches.
According to this line of reasoning, whether the Beautiful Names did not befit Westminster Cathedral is not something that can be answered without some knowledge of whether it was propounding truth or (however innocently on the part of the composer) falsehood. I think it is significant that, whatever the origin of the Names (and I hope it was scriptural!), they had been appropriated by a Christian composer.
In arguing as I have, I don't however intend to withhold my salute to the courage and commitment of those who bore witness to the fuller truth outside the Cathedral!
CPKS - thank very much for those thoughts. Just to clarify on the source of the beautiful names, they are from Islamic tradition, based on the Qur'an. Cf article in Wikipedia for more info.
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